20Hz subsonic filter? & MBL4 vs Sound Solution

[Energy Radio]

Hello everyone,

What are your opinions between SS and MBL4? I have been investigating an issue which is especially important in FM broadcasting, the low frequency content below 20Hz which has an effect on signal, loudness and PLL lock retainment on the transmitter. I noticed on SS 1.3 that it was causing the PLL to work very hard to hold and would mean that receivers would not stop on auto scan even though the signal in the area was more than adequate. After some tests with an analyser I can see the difference between the two processors quite clearly. I am curious as SS does not appear to have a 20Hz HPF?

On another note, there is often quite a bit of overshoot from the clipper on both processors. Could anyone recommend some good methods of overshoot compensation? I have had mixed results with composite clippers in StereoCoder and Airomate, even those can sometimes overshoot.. and have heard mixed opinions about spectral mush being introduced.. Any opinions or advice greatly received.

Thanks 

[jesseg]

Switch to Sonos, for FM it's superior to anything else available for free.  As far as Airomate, it should be fine if you do NOT use any of it's filtering or clipping.  As a stereo encoder it does OK, as an RDS encoder it does GREAT, but as soon as you use any filtering or clipping, that's where it really starts to have problems with overshoots.

I suppose in a few years, i would hope, that they can fix the problem, because it's really quite a simple thing to fix, and it's a shame that they've overlooked a few things.  I've tried to help them out in the past, but they just wanted a free lunch so to speak, but I've tried to give them pointers, and so far I haven't seen any of my suggestions implemented.

So, with Sonos at least you'll get a properly limited pre-emphasized L/R signal, for stereo encoding.
http://www.burnill.co.uk/sonos2_download.php
You won't be able to get any composite clipping, because Airomate's clipping advantages are far exceeded by it's problems, but it's still going to get you a pretty decent sound on air (given your ability to adjust Sonos, and it's ability to do what you want).

The Orban Optimod 8200 doesn't have composite clippers, and it still sounds OK on air, as long as the firmware is a later version with the newer bass clipper design.

[edit]
What you might even do it run SoundSolution for your main processing, and just use Sonos for pre-emphasis and limiting.
[/edit]

[Energy Radio]

Thanks Jesse.. I've been trying to use Sonos 2 with the full version of VAC so I can process playlists and files as well as line in streams.. but the virtual cable does not show in the list as it's not ASIO? So I'm currently using Sonos 1 (MBL4 v6)..

[jesseg]

Have you tried ASIO4ALL?  If you use that, and have it access VAC using Kernel Streaming, there should be a pretty darn low delay added from that.

[Energy Radio]

Thanks for that.. So far, so good 

I'm trying to find the Pre-Emphasis control of MBL4 & MBL5 in Sonos 2.. any ideas? It is present in MBL3 but hidden somewhere in the other two.. Do I need to edit the settings file manually?

Thanks again for your help!

[Omnia6]

Hi,I've downloaded Sonos 11 and can't work out how the hell you get (live) audio playing through it using MBL5?
Is there something I'm missing...I've set a passwrod etc but it seems to be streaming based only...

I've got the stand alone MBL4 working that I got from their website but that only has a basic single clipper, I want to use the Clipper on MBL5.....

[Energy Radio]

Setup > Server > Sound Settings

Use ASIO4ALL and Virtual Audio Cable to route from a media player.

Hope this helps..

[James Martin]

What you might even do it run SoundSolution for your main processing, and just use Sonos for pre-emphasis and limiting.

I'm trying doing this now - running SS (the JG edit of DB) without any clipping but keeping the output low, driving it into Sonos I at around -10dB.

I'm then using the Limit plugin to provide a bit of final compression and the limiter to chop any peaks.  Takes a bit of work and adjustment but really slaps you in the middle of the chest when done right - and considerably more loudness than using SS alone.

[James Martin]

Another thing to try doing is running a basic compressor before Sound Sol - a Behringer Composer or something, set at light touch, works well.

[Mr. Xang]

It's a good practice not to add more analog txsistor noise to your digital inputs. It converts into digital noise, unless is very clean...very!!!. With the mixer, fx's, mike/turntable pre-amps, phone patch, funky power wall-warts & your cat's purring...the stuff just adds. In my Behringer mixer It goes USB digital as soon as possible & then do most of the DSP @ the PC's digital realm...& that includes Sound Solution. Goes out of the PC thru the optical SPDIF of the sound card still in digital form to a Behringer DEQ-2496. Here a lot of things happen. More stereo image, Compression/expansion & brick wall limiter. Usually I'm careful enough not to need the Feedback Destroyer & I can't use the Delay 'cause it messes up with the FM modulator's stereo pilot generator (I think). It do shapes the audio spectrum's end frequencies with the GEQ & the DEQ, cutting below 40 hz & above 15 khz. Also it smooths those ends so it won't have an abrupt ending cliff. Handy piece of gear ah!!!...+/- 300 bucks. Lately I've been using a Behringer SX-3040 @ the analog output of the DEQ-2496... but it's just to compare it with an Aphex 104 (the Apex is old technology, good...just different). Lot's of people "fufu" Behringer & I believe that's because they don't know enough (or have the brains) to find the sweet spot between their particular gear scenarios & how to achieve it with Uli's audio equipment. Hey...if Behringer starts selling a car tomorrow...I'l be the first one to hook it up to my A/V gear...ipso facto. Mr. Xang.

[Mr. Xang]

As a follow-up for the set-up on the Behringer DEQ2496...I added a 20 hz & 15 Khz cut-offs in the DEQ of the DEQ2496 & set to the maximum attenuation. In other words...all 3 Eq's are on now with a substantial reduction in that pesky little peak @ 20 hz that I was seen in the spectrum display. I did not noticed any difference by applying the 15 Khz cut-off, but keep it as a matter of good FM practice. I also re-adjusted the SX-3040 giving the whole sound more audio harmonic definition. Mr. Xang.